Excerpt from Fumbling Towards Inclusivity, an episode for which I was interviewed with the Life is a Festival podcast, beginning at around 59 minutes.

NEXUS: So the first one being denial. But I’m not a racist. Right? This idea that only racist people do racist things. And you know, per our conversation about unconscious bias and microaggressions, you don’t actually have to be a bad person to do racist things. I don’t have to be a sexist to do sexist things.

And I realized a lot of times, I’ve had some conflicts with white women in general over the past year. And I realized that I think I’m more worried about doing sexist things with them than they are about doing racist things with me. So that’s just an interesting intersection. So the first one being denial. But I’m not a racist.

The second being anger. Like, I can’t believe you’d imply I’m a racist. I can’t believe like– like, I’m not a Nazi. And OK. So now you’re feeling some kind of way about it. And you’re angry at me for calling out something that we’re just, even when I use the terms white supremacy, I guess people take it personally rather than realizing it’s a label for a structure of inequity. And until they can shift that framework, they’re always going to take it personally. That’s not my job to help them get there.

Then bargaining. So this is something that’s been really interesting to see.

EAMON ARMSTRONG: These sound like the stages of grief.

NEXUS: Oh yeah.

EAMON ARMSTRONG: OK. Go on.

NEXUS: So bargaining happens when people who’ve gotten past their denial and anger say, well, could you just not use the words racist or racism or white supremacy? As if using other words would make it easier for them to not feel defensive about the thing. But there really aren’t any other words for the thing. And trying to use other words so that you can feel better about having this conversation or be more comfortable is also furthering white supremacy by centering white feelings over the actual hurt that the world and your actions that manifest this inequity are causing.

Anyway still with me so far?

EAMON ARMSTRONG: Yeah.

EAMON ARMSTRONG: I was just saying, it seems like the stages of grief.

NEXUS: Yeah. The fourth being depression. So going back to a feeling place, especially when this happens with people who have interpersonal relationships, friendships, who are working together, the whole, why would you attack me like that? Like, I thought we were friends. Now they’re sad because somehow you calling out their unconscious actions means that they have let you down in some way. It’s just really weird. And it manifests in a lot of different ways.

EAMON ARMSTRONG: You know, something that’s coming up for me as you’re reading this, it’s five stages of white fragility. And the opposite of fragility is resiliency.

NEXUS: Yeah.

EAMON ARMSTRONG: And this, why would you do this to me, kind of thing. Oh me, why would you do this to me? That, to me, is the opposite of resiliency. Whereas resiliency is like, wow, OK. I need to learn. I need to grow. I need to know. I need to know. You’ve got to tell me this. You’ve got to let me know when I’m being this way. Because I need to grow in these ways.

NEXUS: Right. Which leads us to our fifth one being just acceptance. And the best things any white person can say whenever things like this are called out are, I hear you. I believe you. I have work to do.